Survivor: Game Changers – Zeke Smith interview: Reflections on two seasons
Nonetheless, Zeke persevered and fought hard following the merge. His elimination on Wednesday’s episode was a result of him being a threat to win the game, and Andrea in particular getting back at him after he flipped previously after the merge. In his own final words, she got him before he could get her.
In our Zeke Smith interview today, we relished in the chance to go in-depth with him (it’s always fun to do exit interview with big fans of the show) about his gameplay, the reconciliation of personal relationships and game moves, and how he may want a little bit of time now to relax before going back and playing the game again.
CarterMatt – This is the second season in a row where it’s felt like you were targeted for being almost too good at the game given that you are very likable and strategic in the game. How can you ever mitigate something like that if you go back for a third time?
Zeke Smith – It’s the tricky thing. I think the fan consensus would be that I’m not that good of a Survivor player because the essence of being a good player is being able to control perception. Clearly, I’m not that good at that. The perception of me always is that I have a pretty good case to win at the end, and that’s not what you want to have.
I think the challenge in preparing for a third season if that happens is that I have to harness this instinct to play. I think that comes from a love of the game that I love to watch as a fan, and I know what I want to do when I’m on the beach — play. I think I have to find a way to flip that switch, to really sit around and not play as hard. It’s kind of a depressing thought, but it’s the adjustment that I’d have to make.
We hear a lot about whether or not it’s a good thing to go to Tribal in the end — someone like Denise [Stapley] went to every single one, and then someone like Michele [Fitzgerald] ended up not going to one until the merge. Do you think it benefited you in the early going to avoid Tribal Council as long as you did?
Yes and no. I think Tribal Council builds trust — I don’t think you know if you can trust someone until you’ve voted together, and I would’ve liked to go to Tribal Council at Tavua to vote out Cirie for a couple of reasons. One is that a rumor got back to me pretty quickly that Cirie no longer trusted me at Tavua — I still don’t know how that happened. I would’ve liked to build that bond with Troyzan and with Ozzy, and that’s the sort of thing that only could have been solidified then.
The Sandra and the Varner votes weren’t tricky votes — there wasn’t any trust that was born from those votes because they were both so straightforward. I think that it would’ve been better for me to establish trust by voting with people. I could’ve been in a better spot in the game at the merge than I was.
I know that if I was in your position, I would’ve been freaking out about going into the game and working with someone like Cirie. How much excitement is there over that, and how long does it take before you start to realize ‘okay, they’re just another person and I’m playing the game’?
I was super-giddy when I first hit the beach; I fanboyed all over Cirie. Part of that was strategic. I knew that I had this ghost of Russell Hantz over my shoulder, and I needed to give people a reason why I was there, a character type that wasn’t like ‘I’m a cutthroat player.’ I thought that leaning in to the Cochran mold could help that, being like ‘I’m the superfan’ and that I was just excited to meet everybody.
But you have to be on your toes. I was already nervous about being in an All-Star season having just played and I was wondering if I belonged there or not. I felt like I really had to squish that giddiness and look into people’s eyes and wonder whether or not I could trust them. It was definitely a big effort that I made within the first week [to pull that off].
I don’t know how much time you had between seasons…
Two weeks.
What was that toll like on you while you were out there, whether it be physically or emotionally, that came from playing two seasons back to back? Did you have anything left in the tank?
I had very little left in the tank. Physically I was fine, but I don’t rely on my body too much out there. I went into 34 with less mental gas than 33. Even though I had two weeks between seasons, because I was asked back instantly my brain never switched out of Survivor mode. I was still a paranoid nervous wreck for all of the time I had off. My brain can really only manage that level of stress with the minimal amount of calories that you have for so long.
I lost a lot of mental gas at that Varner tribal, but I was like ‘you got to soldier on and keep playing.’ Part of that is trying to forget what happened, but that also takes its own brain power to compartmentalize. With everything I had left I tried to focus back on the game, but I knew I wasn’t making great decisions. I was running on about 10% of the mental energy that I started with on 33.
With everything that happened with the Varner vote, it had to be this odd reconciliation. You had so much tremendous support from these other people, but then all of a sudden your name started to be brought up all of the time.
In the aftermath of that moment, were you prepared to become a target? How challenging was it that people could be so supportive in one way, and then target you so strongly in another?
The atmosphere changed pretty instantly. Everyone was super supportive of me as a person, but any person who has a compelling story just has a target on their back. When I sat everyone down [at the merge] for that fireside chat and said ‘this is what happened,’ I knew it was like ‘game on, let’s keep playing.’ I didn’t want anyone to feel sorry for me. Part of playing Survivor is knowing that a compelling story puts a target on your back.
It wasn’t a secret. I was the decoy vote against Hali, and I was told the exact reason why. I went from being in people’s final three plans to being in their final seven plans, which was really their final eleven plans. I knew that I was on borrowed time, so it really was a question of how I wanted to play. Did I want to sit back and maybe make it a few more votes, or did I want to play and take big swings? I wanted to show that what happened hadn’t changed me as a Survivor player, that I was still the reckless big-swinging dude that I’d always been.
The only thing that I thought I could do is try to upset people. If I could turn on people and get them mad at me, maybe that would counteract the good will that I had. Everyone was like ‘oh, he’s got a compelling story,’ but if they were like ‘oh, he’s pissed everyone off,’ that might help. I don’t think it did. I just think that it pissed people off (laughs).
Can you speak a little about your relationship with Brad? The conversation last night was very Chris Hammons-esque with all of the football talk. Was there a reason for everyone to feel so paranoid over that one conversation at the reward?
I think they had a good reason to be paranoid about it. I feel like if I do something well in Survivor, I make allies out of people I previously blindsided.
I really enjoyed being out there with Brad Culpepper, that was one of my biggest surprises. I knew him from Blood vs. Water and ‘F U Brad Culpepper.’ We had a ton of fun out there! I was hoping to bring him in and work with him; I knew he was feeling blindsided [from the vote before]. I also knew that I was not in a good spot with the people I had just voted with. I hadn’t pulled the football connection on Brad before; I’d sort of been saving it. When I needed it, I was just like ‘all right Brad Culpepper, we’re going to talk about football’ (laughs).
I think Brad would agree, he and I were solid going forward. We would’ve gone pretty far in the game together after that.
How would you describe your dynamic with Michaela? She seemed heartbroken that you left — she’s had so many big reactions at Tribal this season — but she also was one of the people who voted you out.
Michaela voted for me three out of those four Tribals [after the merge], and every time I told her how I was voting. I also said things like ‘Michaela, I know you’re being given my name. If it’s smarter for you to vote for me, vote for me.’ That’s sort of how I feel about Survivor. I don’t take it personally. Everyone should just make the best decision for them.
The thing about 34 was that it was a lot more brutal socially. In 33 we played hard but we were all really nice to each other. In 34, people were a bit gruffer with each other. By the time we hit the merge, people were not all that nice to Michaela.
Michaela and I, we started this adventure together and I like Michaela. We really bonded, and I think what we both had in common is that we’d been out there on the beach since March 28 [2016]. Four months later, we were still in Fiji. We didn’t know what our lives were going to look like when we got home. We’d been away for a long time and really shared a bond from having this insane ride back to back. It was nice to be able to share that with her.
I think Michaela thinks about the game the same way I do. You like people, but you have to make the decision that’s best for you.
Let’s circle back to a potential Zeke 3.0. Is that something that you want? Do you want a little time to get your life in order before going back?
I’ve been doing Survivor non-stop since October 2015. I love Survivor quite a bit, but I think I’m ready for something else to take center stage the next few years. I really can’t say. I don’t know what the future holds. Maybe another trip on the beach is in the cards, but who knows?
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