On Outlander season 3, Jamie, Lord John Grey, male friendship, and complications
In between the Print Shop, the search for Jamie, and everything Jamie/Claire in general, it’s fairly understandable that the arrival of David Berry as the iconic Diana Gabaldon character would be somewhat lost in the shuffle. We have mentioned him here and there in various articles, but from the TV show side of things, there is still a great deal here that needs to be brought out and explored further. How does this relationship evolve past two men on very different sides of the political spectrum? How do they bond? What is the push and pull between them, and what are they willing to do for each other? There is a history there, but this story will be more about where the two parties are in the present and how they can move past the obvious barriers that exist.
What we’re especially excited to see play out with these characters is a deepening emotional connection and an understanding of how one another works and feels. Male friendship is often not something that is expressed all that well on television, mostly because it often devolves into just watching guys be bros and goofing off, thinking that it’s somehow not masculine enough to be able to share some further thoughts and feelings. Conversations are often geared most on success, war, conquest, or sex. We do think that television has improved leaps and bounds over the past five years when it comes to showing strong female friendships, but there hasn’t been the same evolution on the other side of the coin with men.
There are two TV series that we often look towards as strong examples of male friendship.
Suits – If you think about it, Harvey Specter’s biggest concern with Mike Ross going to prison was that he was going to be without his best friend. They work together, but they also care about each other. Even this season, creator Aaron Korsh crafted a strong arc about how Louis Litt was struggling with the idea of Harvey’s friend Alex Williams joining the firm. He started to feel accepted, and felt like his own friendship with Harvey was going to wane with this new arrival.
Hap and Leonard – This is a subject we’ve discussed in the past with series star James Purefoy, who believes that this show does excel at showcasing the bond between two adult men with different backgrounds and often different motivations. There are probably more similarities here to the Jamie/Lord John dynamic than with Suits, though neither Hap or Leonard find themselves at each other’s mercy in the way that Jamie does Berry’s character.
Sure, we’re as thrilled to see the Print Shop scenes as anyone, but we’re equally invested in seeing how Jamie and Lord John Grey develop their relationship in the opening arc of season 3. With Jamie in the abyss and haunted by the ghost of his great love Claire, a friendship could be a beacon of hope — even if it begins in a troublesome place. (Unfortunately, and as many book readers know, this friendship does eventually become complicated in so many different ways — we don’t want to spoil them here, mostly because they are what makes this dynamic so interesting, unique, and at times even heartbreaking. It is a very singular and notable bond.)
What do you want to see from Jamie and Lord John? Sound off in the comments!
If you missed it … be sure to also check out some more early Outlander season 4 news. (Photo: Starz.)
Meredith
August 9, 2017 @ 12:04 am
I don’t think that John married Isobel just because it was a chance to stay close to Jamie. Obviously, that’s a part of it, but it’s not the only reason. 1. It is a widely held belief back then, that if you get a girl pregnant and make her into a mother, you should marry them. Well, John sent Jamie to Helwater, accidentally introducing him to Geneva and accidentally creating William. Isabel was made into a mother because of those events. Events that John set in motion. So John was taking responsibility for a baby he accidentally created. He married the woman he made into a mother. 2. Obviously, William grew up knowing and loving Lord John since he was a baby. Is it so unheard of to believe that John felt paternal towards the boy? 3. In that era, men and women married in three different way. Either they fell in love, they married a friend or they were married off to a stranger. Ideally, you get to marry someone you fell for, but if you don’t have a sweetheart, than marrying a friend is preferably than being married to a stranger. Isabel watched what happened to her older sister. Geneva was married to a man four times her age who was obviously abusive towards Geneva. Isabel didn’t want to suffer Geneva’s fate. And I think John (whatever his felling toward her) didn’t want to see her married off to a stranger either. He’d known Isobel all her life. And in the absence of romantic love, friendship isn’t a bad foundation for a marriage. 4. Gay men married women back then. If Lord John stayed a bachelor for life, people would have started gossiping about him and he would have been discovered. And just being a homosexual in that era was a capital offence. So John needed a wife. Isabel needed a husband. And William needed a father who could raise him. Al sound reasons. Keeping Jamie’s friendship was just an added bonus.
Meredith
August 8, 2017 @ 11:42 pm
Does anyone else find the name of Jamie’s son ‘William,’ symbolic? Jamie’s deceased brother is named William. And John’s middle name happens to be William. The Dunsany grandparents obviously named the baby, but ‘William’ is a name either John and Jamie would have chosen, had it been up to them. I don’t think that the name was randomly chosen by Diana Gabaldon. She chose the name ‘William,’ because he really is both Jamie’s son and John’s son.
Meredith
August 8, 2017 @ 11:34 pm
I very much enjoy the relationship between Jamie and John for the same reason I enjoy Claire and Frank. It’s a strange parallel, but both Frank and John have much in common. They both fall in love with people who can’t love them back. They both took on the role of fatherhood to keep their loved one close. And both Frank and John remind Claire and Jamie of Black Jack Randall. I’m not saying it’s fair, but it’s the truth. Does anyone else believe that Claire pushed Frank away (in part) because he looked like Black Jack and had the same last name? Yes, Claire was married for a number of years to Frank, before she met Black Jack, but it can’t have been easy just seeing Frank anymore, without also thinking of Jack’s violence towards both Jamie and her. And John is nothing like Black Jack, but he has three things in common with him. He’s a redcoat officer, he’s Jamie’s jailer and he desires him. Those three things make Jamie associate the two together for years. That’s why Jamie pushed John away for so long. Because he wanted to vilify him. I know that the upcoming episode to reintroduce John Grey is called “All Debts Paid,” but because they be doing Jamie’s flashbacks as well as Claire, I wish the episode was titled “Unwelcome Allies.” because that’s what Frank and John are to them. At least for a while.
Lucy
August 5, 2017 @ 11:30 pm
I’m not worried I know Sam and David will do justice to this special friendship. It’s more about the writers and producers, I hope they took time to develop this unique bound between two men
First non readers will not especially understand it but the only watchers have to be deaf and blind not to have heard about LJG ;)
I’m impatient to see Jamie and Claire reunion of course, like Brianna and Roger. But John is such a wonderful man I’m eager to see him brought to life by David Berry, he does such a great job already in A Place to Call Home. We’re very lucky to have this addition to the show!
Cynthia
August 5, 2017 @ 12:16 am
I look forward to this friendship, and I think how it plays out over the series is part of the charm of it to me. Of course, after what happens in Echo in the Bone and the repercussions of that throughout MOBY I’m especially interested how it plays out in the series (I’m being optimistic that STARZ will indeed renew each year for each book – I can’t imagine they won’t).
Matt Carter
August 5, 2017 @ 4:59 am
I hope they will! I never want to get my hopes up TOO high, but they certainly have plenty of ground to cover.
Joanna
August 4, 2017 @ 8:00 pm
Jamie and Lord John are my two most favorite characters in the Outlander universe. I love the purity and loyalty of LJ’s love for Jamie and, despite Jamie’s shortcomings in certain ways when it comes to responding to those feelings, I love the respect and admiration Jamie has for LJ. They have an incredibly complicated relationship but one that is fundamental to both of their lives. I can’t wait to see it acted out on screen. I hope they do it justice.
Avid Reader
August 4, 2017 @ 5:36 pm
While I am looking forward to the growth of Jamie and Lord John’s friendship, it is often a strained one for different reasons, and Willie does keep these men connected for a long time (perhaps longer than need be). I have often viewed Lord John as the scorned lover who cannot have the one he really wants although him and Jamie never do nor can they reach that level. He is a good guy, I agree, but Lord John’s presence in Jamie’s life post-Culloden has often been problematic and a source of distress for Claire after she returns to Jamie. Quite frankly, I think that Galbadon did not fully explore or represent the emotional stress/turmoil caused by Lord John’s friendship with Jamie, Willie, or Jamie’s past “affairs” on Claire in the books – it almost seemed as if she was getting there with Claire, but falling short. I think most women who have read the books would agree that often Claire’s reaction is described in a way which lacks any real emotion and comes nowhere close to reality.
Sara
August 4, 2017 @ 6:53 pm
I guess I must be in that minor group of the women then because I’ve never felt that Claire’s reactions lack emotion and I vividly remember her feelings regarding Lord John, William or some of “past affairs” (like Mary McNaab) being adressed in books like “Drums of Autumn” or “A Breath of Snow and Ashes”.
Avid Reader
August 4, 2017 @ 7:01 pm
I have re-read the books in light of the television series and each and every time I re-read the scenes on which I am basing my comments it is so clear to me that she could be saying, feeling, thinking, reacting so much more…maybe it is the cool doctor in her that keeps her unnervingly tempered
Sara
August 4, 2017 @ 8:23 pm
Maybe. There are myriads of women in the world who react in myriads different ways to the same of similiar things. Claire doesn’t wear her heart on her sleeve unlike her husband. She covers a lot of her feelings with snarky humor and strong attitude. Yet she loves very deeply IMO. Her firstborn, Faith’s death for example, she is unable to speak about her calmly even 20 or 30 years after that tragedy.
I guess it’s the case of two people reading the same text differently. Personally, I was always surprised how many and complex emotions Claire’s narration touches upon and how honest she is with herself. Like when Lord John visited Ridge in book 4. It was everyting from her feeling hurt upon seeing how Jamie quietly cherished William, feeling despair over not being able to present Brianna to him, jealous over the emotional bond between Jamie&LJG she could not be a part of, and remembering feeling betrayed by Frank despite of not really being jealous of him and “his” women.
But she doesn’t voice most of those things, she keeps them to herself. Some other women would react differently, I suppose.
disqus_PXTzLZVYSU
August 5, 2017 @ 11:36 pm
It’s funny but I always thought her reactions, even taking into account she is from a different era, to be way over the top. He is obviously no threat to her relationship but she is almost childishly jealous of their friendship and sees John as a rival. It annoys me no end and is not what I would have expected from Claire. So I actually feel quite the opposite to you. I think it’s a bit much to assume every reader would agree with your view. The fabulous thing about reading books, and Outlander is a perfect example, is we all take away quite different things.
Margie Linder Weaver
August 4, 2017 @ 4:06 pm
Their friendship is one of the things I love most about the books. John truly loves Jamie and I think it’s a beautiful thing.
S. Kent
August 4, 2017 @ 3:00 pm
I have always felt after Willie’s birth it was a forced friendship from John. If Willie was born I don’t think they would have been pen pals.There friendship and Print Shop scene should never be compared..
Sara
August 4, 2017 @ 5:16 pm
I agree that had Willie not been born, John wouldn’t have been as integrated into Jamie’s family as he is. Still, Jamie told Claire in one of the books that John’s friendship was the one thing that literally saved him post Ardsmuir and Helwater. It’s a complicated, multilayered and complex relationship, one of my favourite in the books. I see no point of comparing it to Claire&Jamie love though. Totally different things.
Lone Star
August 3, 2017 @ 11:20 pm
I’m looking forward to seeing Lord John Grey portrayed as an honorable man, worthy of the friendship of Jamie Fraser!